Lance Armstrong ... doping
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
If you focus on the no names, you get no press. Focus on the names and you look like you are after everybody.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I think there's a little more to it than that. Most baseball fans probably didn't get their knickers in a twist about a few players who used PED and hit 40 HR in a season instead of the 30 that they might have had without PED. But if Barry Bonds was artificially aided in his pursuit of the single season and career HR records, that is rightfully considered a little more significant, and I think that same rationale applies to the sport of cycling.allcat wrote:If you focus on the no names, you get no press. Focus on the names and you look like you are after everybody.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
Or, to look at it another way, if you know that a lot of students are cheating on the SAT, do you go after the ones whose cheating-aided scores were 1,400 and allowed them entry into Harvard, or the ones who cheated but still only pulled an 800?allcat wrote:If you focus on the no names, you get no press. Focus on the names and you look like you are after everybody.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
Harvard sucks anyways. They are too lame to even play in the FCS playoffsBay Area Cat wrote:Or, to look at it another way, if you know that a lot of students are cheating on the SAT, do you go after the ones whose cheating-aided scores were 1,400 and allowed them entry into Harvard, or the ones who cheated but still only pulled an 800?allcat wrote:If you focus on the no names, you get no press. Focus on the names and you look like you are after everybody.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
Suppose you're right, subject all to the same scrutiny regardless of achievment may suggest a terrible thing like...integrityBay Area Cat wrote:Or, to look at it another way, if you know that a lot of students are cheating on the SAT, do you go after the ones whose cheating-aided scores were 1,400 and allowed them entry into Harvard, or the ones who cheated but still only pulled an 800?allcat wrote:If you focus on the no names, you get no press. Focus on the names and you look like you are after everybody.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
But they are going after other riders, in addition to Armtstrong...right? Aren't these former teammates getting a "deal" in their own PED cases, in exchange for their testimony against Armstrong? That would indicate that he's not being singled out for prosecution, while everyone else gets a pass. You could argue that it's not fair to punish the others more leniently, so that they can nail Armstrong, but that sort of thing goes on all the time in our criminal justice system...negotiating plea deals with the small fish so that they can get enough evidence to convict the big fish.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I haven't seen anything of the sort.John K wrote:But they are going after other riders, in addition to Armtstrong...right? Aren't these former teammates getting a "deal" in their own PED cases, in exchange for their testimony against Armstrong? That would indicate that he's not being singled out for prosecution, while everyone else gets a pass. You could argue that it's not fair to punish the others more leniently, so that they can nail Armstrong, but that sort of thing goes on all the time in our criminal justice system...negotiating plea deals with the small fish so that they can get enough evidence to convict the big fish.
Two of the riders believed to have given testimony( testifying as to eactly what/when has not been released) are George Hincapie(rode all Lance's TDF wins) and Levi Leipheimer(rode with on 2 wins) have never been mentioned in any PED investigation. Assuming guilt because they testify? Yikes.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
No, I distinctly remember reading (I don't remember where...it may have just been a piece in the local paper) that at least some of Armstrong's teammates were facing PED-related sanctions themselves, but they were being offered relatively light punishments, in exchange for their testimony against Armstrong. I believe that both Hincapie and Leipheimer were mentioned by name in that article, but I wouldn't swear to that.MashTun wrote:I haven't seen anything of the sort.John K wrote:But they are going after other riders, in addition to Armtstrong...right? Aren't these former teammates getting a "deal" in their own PED cases, in exchange for their testimony against Armstrong? That would indicate that he's not being singled out for prosecution, while everyone else gets a pass. You could argue that it's not fair to punish the others more leniently, so that they can nail Armstrong, but that sort of thing goes on all the time in our criminal justice system...negotiating plea deals with the small fish so that they can get enough evidence to convict the big fish.
Two of the riders believed to have given testimony( testifying as to eactly what/when has not been released) are George Hincapie(rode all Lance's TDF wins) and Levi Leipheimer(rode with on 2 wins) have never been mentioned in any PED investigation. Assuming guilt because they testify? Yikes.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I'd have to see the article, before I believe it.John K wrote:No, I distinctly remember reading (I don't remember where...it may have just been a piece in the local paper) that at least some of Armstrong's teammates were facing PED-related sanctions themselves, but they were being offered relatively light punishments, in exchange for their testimony against Armstrong. I believe that both Hincapie and Leipheimer were mentioned by name in that article, but I wouldn't swear to that.MashTun wrote:I haven't seen anything of the sort.John K wrote:But they are going after other riders, in addition to Armtstrong...right? Aren't these former teammates getting a "deal" in their own PED cases, in exchange for their testimony against Armstrong? That would indicate that he's not being singled out for prosecution, while everyone else gets a pass. You could argue that it's not fair to punish the others more leniently, so that they can nail Armstrong, but that sort of thing goes on all the time in our criminal justice system...negotiating plea deals with the small fish so that they can get enough evidence to convict the big fish.
Two of the riders believed to have given testimony( testifying as to eactly what/when has not been released) are George Hincapie(rode all Lance's TDF wins) and Levi Leipheimer(rode with on 2 wins) have never been mentioned in any PED investigation. Assuming guilt because they testify? Yikes.
I have not heard of either of them involved in PED's case before. To clarify, I mean using PED's themselves. I suppose there will be rumor's that they received deals, that wouldn't surprise me.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I saw the bump and knew what was being hinted at ....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/ ... 57258616/1
Sounds like he's pretty much admitting guilt here ... but he leaves the door open for people to believe that he's not.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/ ... 57258616/1
Sounds like he's pretty much admitting guilt here ... but he leaves the door open for people to believe that he's not.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
That's ignorant to say BAC.Bay Area Cat wrote:I saw the bump and knew what was being hinted at ....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/ ... 57258616/1
Sounds like he's pretty much admitting guilt here ... but he leaves the door open for people to believe that he's not.
I don't know about you, but fighting an uphill battle since 1999 when he first won the Tour has got to get extremely old.
TruthIn walking away, the 40-year-old Armstrong cited a familiar defense: he has never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs. "I know who won those seven Tours," Armstrong said in his statement. "The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially Travis Tygart."
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
Travis Tygart is a douche!
I swear, it's like I'm playin' cards with my brother's kids or somethin'. You nerve-wrackin' sons-a-bitches.'
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
Plus, he' not making the money he once was, and I'm sure continuing to fight is a real drain on funds...TIrwin24 wrote:That's ignorant to say BAC.Bay Area Cat wrote:I saw the bump and knew what was being hinted at ....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/ ... 57258616/1
Sounds like he's pretty much admitting guilt here ... but he leaves the door open for people to believe that he's not.
I don't know about you, but fighting an uphill battle since 1999 when he first won the Tour has got to get extremely old.
TruthIn walking away, the 40-year-old Armstrong cited a familiar defense: he has never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs. "I know who won those seven Tours," Armstrong said in his statement. "The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially Travis Tygart."
Eric Curry STILL makes me sad.
94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Reetard sing-a-long choir!!!
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I don't believe for a second that Armstrong didn't use PED while winning his 7 TDF titles, but I don't believe he should have been stripped of those titles, since most of the other riders that he beat were probably also on PED.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I wondered... will they now credit the 2nd-place finisher (or maybe 3rd, 4th, 5th.... 43rd?) How far do they go down the list?John K wrote:I don't believe for a second that Armstrong didn't use PED while winning his 7 TDF titles, but I don't believe he should have been stripped of those titles, since most of the other riders that he beat were probably also on PED.
Retiring my moniker. It's time to ride off into the sunset. It's been a fun ride. Go Cats.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
I was wondering about that too. I'm guessing they will just leave the title vacant for those years, but who knows?CapitalCityCat wrote:I wondered... will they now credit the 2nd-place finisher (or maybe 3rd, 4th, 5th.... 43rd?) How far do they go down the list?John K wrote:I don't believe for a second that Armstrong didn't use PED while winning his 7 TDF titles, but I don't believe he should have been stripped of those titles, since most of the other riders that he beat were probably also on PED.
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping
Keep the faith, TIrwin. Perhaps those who still have the faith can contribute to a legal defense fund so he can keep up the fight (if the issue here really is the cost of the defense). Of course, I'm sure a countless number of attorneys would love to take up his defense pro bono (or at reduced rates) just to make a name for themselves. Who wouldn't want to be the guy whose worked to exonerate a national hero against bogus charges from an evil bureaucratic institution? So it actually seems quite unlikely that cost was really a factor in his decision to "give up the fight."
It seems a whole lot more plausible that he saw the list of people they had lined up to testify, knew what those people knew about his guilt, and then admitted guilt without publicly admitting guilt (thus allowing his fans to continue to keep the faith, keeping open a channel to future sympathy/income by playing the persecution/victim card to said fans), just as I opined before.
I think Pete Rose is a good historical analogy here.
As an aside, there was nothing "ignorant" about what I said. I'm quite well informed in the opinion I expressed.
It seems a whole lot more plausible that he saw the list of people they had lined up to testify, knew what those people knew about his guilt, and then admitted guilt without publicly admitting guilt (thus allowing his fans to continue to keep the faith, keeping open a channel to future sympathy/income by playing the persecution/victim card to said fans), just as I opined before.
I think Pete Rose is a good historical analogy here.
As an aside, there was nothing "ignorant" about what I said. I'm quite well informed in the opinion I expressed.