Skipping HS senior year to go pro

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Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:07 am

I guess this is technically a "professional sports" topic now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=d ... &type=lgns

Sounds like the right decision for this kid. I hope he embraces his time overseas to experience the culture, learn the language, and in the process gain a far, far greater education than he would have received playing college ball (seeing as how he obviously has no interest at all in going to college, so that would have been a waste of time).



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by LTown Cat » Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:36 pm

If the NBA hadn't made the age rule that they did it would have been a matter of time before somebody did this over here. Too bad, but hopefully he is making the right decision.



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:24 pm

LTown Cat wrote:If the NBA hadn't made the age rule that they did it would have been a matter of time before somebody did this over here. Too bad, but hopefully he is making the right decision.
Yeah, that NBA rule is making a joke out of a whole lot of top-tier college Freshman. They quit classes the instant their first season is finished. They are little more than pro bono mercenaries for the school, and then they are off to make the big money.

The NBA should just get rid of all age limits ... let anyone who has the skill to make it play.

And the NCAA needs to drop their silly "amateur" rules and just let anyone accept a scholarship, regardless of whether they tried to go pro in the past or not (in any sport). That way, these kids aren't throwing away a chance to get a college education if they try to go pro and don't make it.

The NCAA should only be concerned about the schools and the boosters not doing things that cheat the system of competition (meaning they and their boosters can't give money to players), but I see no legit reason why the players in college sports need to be restricted from, say, getting an advance from an agent while they are still playing college ball. As long as the money is coming from a third party, I'm fine with it.



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by TIrwin24 » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:46 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
LTown Cat wrote:If the NBA hadn't made the age rule that they did it would have been a matter of time before somebody did this over here. Too bad, but hopefully he is making the right decision.
Yeah, that NBA rule is making a joke out of a whole lot of top-tier college Freshman. They quit classes the instant their first season is finished. They are little more than pro bono mercenaries for the school, and then they are off to make the big money.

The NBA should just get rid of all age limits ... let anyone who has the skill to make it play.

And the NCAA needs to drop their silly "amateur" rules and just let anyone accept a scholarship, regardless of whether they tried to go pro in the past or not (in any sport). That way, these kids aren't throwing away a chance to get a college education if they try to go pro and don't make it.

The NCAA should only be concerned about the schools and the boosters not doing things that cheat the system of competition (meaning they and their boosters can't give money to players), but I see no legit reason why the players in college sports need to be restricted from, say, getting an advance from an agent while they are still playing college ball. As long as the money is coming from a third party, I'm fine with it.
This is absolutely the dumbest thing you have posted in awhile BAC!

For the record, this kid's ego is as big as the state of Montana and I have a feeling he's going to have a humbling experience soon.

The NBA is a complete joke, but the only thing that is credible about it is that they now require kids to go to college and get more EDUCATION. To lift the age restriction, they would be effectively erasing any chance of a good career after sports for kids coming out of high school.

All it takes is one awkward shot to the knee and this kid is done. No high school diploma, no secondary education, nothing.

The world needs ditch diggers too I guess...


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:21 pm

TIrwin24 wrote: This is absolutely the dumbest thing you have posted in awhile BAC!
Thank you for offering such a respectful and well-reasoned response, TIrwin. :roll:

The NBA is a business. They aren't a social outreach program. It's not the responsiblity of the NBA to force kids to go to college, especially those kids who have no interest in college. The NBA's job is to employ the best basketball players in the world ... and age should not be a factor. It's not in most any other sport ... what's so special about the NBA that we need to restrict young players?

As for the "knee" thing ... he apparently is planning to get his GED while he is playing overseas (which, as I noted, is a great education in itself ... much better than the "one and out" kids get at college). And if pro ball doesn't work out for him, he'll still end up with several hundred thousand in earnings that he may well then decide to spend on getting a college degree. He's making his own decisions based on what he feels is best for his career (even though it is obviously not an easy thing to do in terms of leaving home and taking on a foreign culture) ... this seems like something that in any other circumstance people would universally applaud.

And why are you so anti-capitalism and anti-freedom? =P~

Are you opposed to musicians, tennis players, gymnasts, international basketball players, golfers, actors, soccer players, hockey players, baseball players, etc., etc., etc., going pro in their teens as well? Or are they all also worthy of scorn and insult?



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by CapitalCityCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:06 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:
TIrwin24 wrote: This is absolutely the dumbest thing you have posted in awhile BAC!
Thank you for offering such a respectful and well-reasoned response, TIrwin. :roll:

The NBA is a business. They aren't a social outreach program. It's not the responsiblity of the NBA to force kids to go to college, especially those kids who have no interest in college. The NBA's job is to employ the best basketball players in the world ... and age should not be a factor. It's not in most any other sport ... what's so special about the NBA that we need to restrict young players?

As for the "knee" thing ... he apparently is planning to get his GED while he is playing overseas (which, as I noted, is a great education in itself ... much better than the "one and out" kids get at college). And if pro ball doesn't work out for him, he'll still end up with several hundred thousand in earnings that he may well then decide to spend on getting a college degree. He's making his own decisions based on what he feels is best for his career (even though it is obviously not an easy thing to do in terms of leaving home and taking on a foreign culture) ... this seems like something that in any other circumstance people would universally applaud.

And why are you so anti-capitalism and anti-freedom? =P~

Are you opposed to musicians, tennis players, gymnasts, international basketball players, golfers, actors, soccer players, hockey players, baseball players, etc., etc., etc., going pro in their teens as well? Or are they all also worthy of scorn and insult?
BAC,

What age limits would you impose on an NBA either a)recruiting and signing a kid to a future pro contract; b)allowing a kid to actually play in the NBA? Would you be opposed to a 6'8", 250 lb middle school kid going pro? How about a 5th grader signing an exclusive contract and being allowed to quit school because he's already guaranteed a signing bonus? Are all pro sports or careers equal in terms of physical and mental ability? If a 5 year old musical prodigy can play professionally with a symphony orchestra should a 5 year old t-ball player be able to sign a MLB contract? That seems to be the argument you're making. You can say it's limited to Seniors in high school this year, but what about next year and the next? Do we just gradually lower the acceptable age to become pro? Do we just eventually start farming out kids before they're even born? These scenarios may sound ridiculous, but I can assure you that the thought of a high school kid forgoing his senior season for the NBA was just as ridiculous 20-30 years ago. My point is..... at what point do we say "enough is enough"?


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by Billings_Griz » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:07 am

TIrwin24 wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
LTown Cat wrote:If the NBA hadn't made the age rule that they did it would have been a matter of time before somebody did this over here. Too bad, but hopefully he is making the right decision.
Yeah, that NBA rule is making a joke out of a whole lot of top-tier college Freshman. They quit classes the instant their first season is finished. They are little more than pro bono mercenaries for the school, and then they are off to make the big money.

The NBA should just get rid of all age limits ... let anyone who has the skill to make it play.

And the NCAA needs to drop their silly "amateur" rules and just let anyone accept a scholarship, regardless of whether they tried to go pro in the past or not (in any sport). That way, these kids aren't throwing away a chance to get a college education if they try to go pro and don't make it.

The NCAA should only be concerned about the schools and the boosters not doing things that cheat the system of competition (meaning they and their boosters can't give money to players), but I see no legit reason why the players in college sports need to be restricted from, say, getting an advance from an agent while they are still playing college ball. As long as the money is coming from a third party, I'm fine with it.
This is absolutely the dumbest thing you have posted in awhile BAC!

For the record, this kid's ego is as big as the state of Montana and I have a feeling he's going to have a humbling experience soon.

The NBA is a complete joke, but the only thing that is credible about it is that they now require kids to go to college and get more EDUCATION. To lift the age restriction, they would be effectively erasing any chance of a good career after sports for kids coming out of high school.

All it takes is one awkward shot to the knee and this kid is done. No high school diploma, no secondary education, nothing.

The world needs ditch diggers too I guess...
I disagree w/ almost everything BAC says :wink: , but agree w/ him on this one.

Like the NCAA, the NBA, is a joke. They deserve each other.

You can be 18 and go to war. You can be 14 (or is it 16?) and have a job. For a "pro" BB player, playing is his "job". Why should their be an age limit? (assuming the "would be" freshman is 18)

If an 18 year old wants to play professionally and find out he can't make it, he should be able to go to college to educate/better himself as a hoopster.

So how's the NBA playoffs going? I don't watch the NBA...



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by TIrwin24 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:21 am

CapitalCityCat wrote:
BAC,

What age limits would you impose on an NBA either a)recruiting and signing a kid to a future pro contract; b)allowing a kid to actually play in the NBA? Would you be opposed to a 6'8", 250 lb middle school kid going pro? How about a 5th grader signing an exclusive contract and being allowed to quit school because he's already guaranteed a signing bonus? Are all pro sports or careers equal in terms of physical and mental ability? If a 5 year old musical prodigy can play professionally with a symphony orchestra should a 5 year old t-ball player be able to sign a MLB contract? That seems to be the argument you're making. You can say it's limited to Seniors in high school this year, but what about next year and the next? Do we just gradually lower the acceptable age to become pro? Do we just eventually start farming out kids before they're even born? These scenarios may sound ridiculous, but I can assure you that the thought of a high school kid forgoing his senior season for the NBA was just as ridiculous 20-30 years ago. My point is..... at what point do we say "enough is enough"?
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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by TIrwin24 » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:32 am

BAC, by your reasoning, sports are more important than an education, and I am willing to bet that this kid will not get his GED.

Once he starts playing ball, I am willing to bet the last thing on his mind is finishing his education.

BAC, it seems like you are an educated individual, but in today's world people need an education to get places in this world, so it surprises me that you would support bypassing an education because of being "bored" with it.

Give me a break


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:16 am

CapitalCityCat wrote: BAC,

What age limits would you impose on an NBA either a)recruiting and signing a kid to a future pro contract; b)allowing a kid to actually play in the NBA? Would you be opposed to a 6'8", 250 lb middle school kid going pro? How about a 5th grader signing an exclusive contract and being allowed to quit school because he's already guaranteed a signing bonus? Are all pro sports or careers equal in terms of physical and mental ability? If a 5 year old musical prodigy can play professionally with a symphony orchestra should a 5 year old t-ball player be able to sign a MLB contract? That seems to be the argument you're making. You can say it's limited to Seniors in high school this year, but what about next year and the next? Do we just gradually lower the acceptable age to become pro? Do we just eventually start farming out kids before they're even born? These scenarios may sound ridiculous, but I can assure you that the thought of a high school kid forgoing his senior season for the NBA was just as ridiculous 20-30 years ago. My point is..... at what point do we say "enough is enough"?
If a five year old was signed by an NBA team, I would have no problem with that. I find that scenario to be highly unlikely, however, as I am not aware of any 5 year old that is capable of competing at the NBA level. But if an NBA team decided that it was worth it to them to use a draft choice and put out the money to sign a 5 year old to a contact, I would not have any problem with that at all. If the 5 year old happened to be my son, I would be very, very, very proud and excited ... and more than happy to use some of his millions to hire him an entourage of tutors.

Why do we think there needs to be an age limit on the NBA? European players go pro when they are in their mid-teens, and we don't seem to have any problem with them and their multi-lingual, solid fundamental, articulate interview-giving in a second language, hard-working ways.



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:30 am

TIrwin24 wrote:BAC, by your reasoning, sports are more important than an education, and I am willing to bet that this kid will not get his GED.

Once he starts playing ball, I am willing to bet the last thing on his mind is finishing his education.

BAC, it seems like you are an educated individual, but in today's world people need an education to get places in this world, so it surprises me that you would support bypassing an education because of being "bored" with it.

Give me a break
No, TIrwin, I'm not saying sports are more important than an education. You are completely missing the point (intentionally, I assume). I am saying that if one doesn't need any more schooling in order to be very successful in their career of choice, they don't need any more schooling. "Education" is not the same as "schooling." For this kid's career path, his best education will be playing pro ball overseas. That's where he will learn the most and grow the most as a person in his pursuit of being successful in his career of choice.

1. This kid has no interest in college. Therefore, he will get nothing out of college. He will be just like O.J. Mayo and so many others who put on the show of going to college for one year, doing the bare minimum during the season, and then quit going to their classes as soon as their mandatory one year of basketball is over. That system is the joke. Those guys are nothing more than pro bono mercenaries that are being forced to play for free in a sham arrangement.

2. Who cares if you don't think he will get his GED? He says he will. You know nothing about this kid, so your opinion seems irrelevent.

3. You and I need college educations to get places in this world. 6'11" guys with loads of basketball talent do not. If I had the ability to make hundreds of thousands (and ultimately millions) of dollars with no further schooling when I was 17, I'd have been a fool to do more schooling for free. He's making a wise business decision. If his pro career doesn't pan out, he can always go back and get schooling to train for a different career (and pay for it with the money he already made in his first career) ... there is no rule that says you must do all of your schooling by a certain age. Again, nobody cares if you don't think he will return to school ... you know absolutely nothing about this kid (despite the fact that you have insulted his character repeatedly).

4. Going overseas, becoming immersed in another culture and taking on a pro career IS an education in itself ... and he will learn MUCH MORE going that route that he would in high school in San Diego.

Again, are you opposed to musicians, tennis players, gymnasts, international basketball players, golfers, actors, soccer players, hockey players, baseball players, etc., etc., etc., going pro in their teens as well? Or are they all also worthy of scorn and insult?



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by BDizzle » Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:42 am

I agree with BAC on this one. Even though I wish they would all finish high school and experience college life for a while. If a kid has the physical talent and ability to play pro ball or pro anything than good for him/her.

You can't really compare a 5 year old playing basketball to a 5 year old playing piano. Apples and oranges as one requires physical gifts no 5 year old would have. But hey if a 5 year old could play professional basketball than more power to him.


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by CapitalCityCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:42 am

Bay Area Cat wrote: If a five year old was signed by an NBA team, I would have no problem with that. I find that scenario to be highly unlikely, however, as I am not aware of any 5 year old that is capable of competing at the NBA level. But if an NBA team decided that it was worth it to them to use a draft choice and put out the money to sign a 5 year old to a contact, I would not have any problem with that at all. If the 5 year old happened to be my son, I would be very, very, very proud and excited ... and more than happy to use some of his millions to hire him an entourage of tutors.
I find it very unlikely as well and I said the scenario was ridiculous. But you never really answered any of my questions, did you? Do you think a big, athletic high school freshman should be allowed to play in the NBA? At what age/physical/mental level would you say "you know what? That's just way too young". I'm really interested in hearing your answers. If a high school senior is capable of competing in the NBA, then why not a junior, sophomore, freshman? But then if you let a 15-year old freshman play, how can you deny an equally talented 14-, 13-, 12- year old?

NCAA schools are already recruiting 7th graders and I have a problem with that. Do you also think this is ok? Then, if it's allowed for 7th graders, why shouldn't we include all "middle schoolers"? I mean, there's really no difference between a 7th grader and a 5th grader, is there? Where would you draw the line, BAC? I'm curious...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/southfl ... 84969.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why do we think there needs to be an age limit on the NBA? European players go pro when they are in their mid-teens, and we don't seem to have any problem with them and their multi-lingual, solid fundamental, articulate interview-giving in a second language, hard-working ways.
There's a HUGE difference between the NBA and the European league. Not that I'm saying either should allow teens who haven't graduated to play, but the attitude between the two leagues isn't even comparable.

If you think there shouldn't be an age limit on the NBA, then how about the NFL? I think all professions are different and therefore should be tailored to their respective participants. And I


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:50 am

I kind of assumed that you would gather from my post that if I was okay with a five year old going pro in the NBA, that I would also be fine with a Freshman in high school going pro. I thought that did answer your question.

But to be explicit ... I have no problem any pro sporting league signing any person between the ages of 1 day to 2,000,000 years old.

I'm not understanding your argument about pro international basketball leagues being different in a way that impacts this discussion. It seems like a perfect comparison to me, and the scores of successful European players seems to advance the argument quite effectively that these guys aren't harmed at all by going pro in their teens.

Tony Parker, for instance, went pro at age 17 in Paris. And that has irrepairably harmed his life how, exactly? :wink:



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by CapitalCityCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:50 am

BDizzle wrote:You can't really compare a 5 year old playing basketball to a 5 year old playing piano. Apples and oranges as one requires physical gifts no 5 year old would have. But hey if a 5 year old could play professional basketball than more power to him.
I agree you can't. But BAC claims that there shouldn't be any difference for "teens" in their respective professions... so I just took it a few steps further to find out where one draws the line. Again... I KNOW this is a ridiculous scenario.... but nobody seems to have an answer, everybody just has their own opinion. Every profession is obviously different in their physical/mental attributes. I don't have a problem with teen golfers or tennis players going pro. Maybe it's because they're individual sports, I dunno. But I don't think teenagers (who haven't finished high school) are mentally ready to handle the challenges that the NBA, NFL, NHL (and some other professions) throw at them.


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by BDizzle » Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:24 pm

CapitalCityCat wrote:
BDizzle wrote:You can't really compare a 5 year old playing basketball to a 5 year old playing piano. Apples and oranges as one requires physical gifts no 5 year old would have. But hey if a 5 year old could play professional basketball than more power to him.
I agree you can't. But BAC claims that there shouldn't be any difference for "teens" in their respective professions... so I just took it a few steps further to find out where one draws the line. Again... I KNOW this is a ridiculous scenario.... but nobody seems to have an answer, everybody just has their own opinion. Every profession is obviously different in their physical/mental attributes. I don't have a problem with teen golfers or tennis players going pro. Maybe it's because they're individual sports, I dunno. But I don't think teenagers (who haven't finished high school) are mentally ready to handle the challenges that the NBA, NFL, NHL (and some other professions) throw at them.
I agree that most teenagers aren't mentally prepared. But thats not saying some can't. Hell look at some of the players that play college ball compared to some that came straight from high school. I think Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett are doing just fine. There are success stories and busts from both angles. If a freshman in high school that is 6'8'' 250lbs thinks he has the talent to play in the pros let him declare. I have a feeling he won't get drafted. Hopefully than kids will learn.

Another hard topic because if my kid told me sophomore year he was going to drop out of school and play pro ball I'd kick his ass.

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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by KittieKop » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:05 pm

Take this whole discussion one step further - why are there minimum ages for certain professions outside of sports? Why can't 15 year olds operate heavy machinery? Why, in my profession, do you need to be 18 years old to be hired? I'll throw the same argument out from earlier, but I'll take the other side of the coin - If there are age restrictions in other professions before you can work in the field, why are professional sports - in this case the NBA - any different?

And BTW, I really could care less - and haven't watched a minute of an NBA game in probably 15 years.


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:14 pm

KittieKop wrote:Take this whole discussion one step further - why are there minimum ages for certain professions outside of sports? Why can't 15 year olds operate heavy machinery? Why, in my profession, do you need to be 18 years old to be hired? I'll throw the same argument out from earlier, but I'll take the other side of the coin - If there are age restrictions in other professions before you can work in the field, why are professional sports - in this case the NBA - any different?

And BTW, I really could care less - and haven't watched a minute of an NBA game in probably 15 years.
Presumably the industries you are speaking of have minimum age requirements due to the potential of physical danger involved (in other words, you are giving that employee the power to potentially kill someone, so minimum requirements are necessary for safety purposes). That would create a distinction between being a cop (or any other industry that involves potential physical harm/death if not done correctly) and playing basketball (where the biggest risk is losing a game).

BTW, I think most everyone who grew up in MT knows of many 15 year olds who operated heavy machinery, but that's beside the point.



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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by CapitalCityCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:54 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote: And the NCAA needs to drop their silly "amateur" rules and just let anyone accept a scholarship, regardless of whether they tried to go pro in the past or not (in any sport). That way, these kids aren't throwing away a chance to get a college education if they try to go pro and don't make it.
Bay Area Cat wrote: If his pro career doesn't pan out, he can always go back and get schooling to train for a different career (and pay for it with the money he already made in his first career)
So, should the athlete be allowed to get a scholarship or should he be forced to pay for it with his (presumably) multimillion dollar contract?


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Re: Skipping HS senior year to go pro

Post by SonomaCat » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:00 pm

CapitalCityCat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote: And the NCAA needs to drop their silly "amateur" rules and just let anyone accept a scholarship, regardless of whether they tried to go pro in the past or not (in any sport). That way, these kids aren't throwing away a chance to get a college education if they try to go pro and don't make it.
Bay Area Cat wrote: If his pro career doesn't pan out, he can always go back and get schooling to train for a different career (and pay for it with the money he already made in his first career)
So, should the athlete be allowed to get a scholarship or should he be forced to pay for it with his (presumably) multimillion dollar contract?
In my ideal world (meaning all of the rules would be changed), there would be no "amatuer" requirements for the NCAA. So in that world, the kid would possibly have the option of getting a scholarship to play basketball if the pro route didn't work out. Of course, if he blew out his knee (which was the scenario laid out in the post I was responding to) or didn't even want to play basketball, he could just pay for it himself.

Under all current rules, he would have to pay for it himself, and wouldn't be allowed to play college basketball.

I'm a little confused as to why you quoted those two different blurbs together and then asked me that question ... I thought both of those blurbs was quite self-explanatory independently (and only independently, as they obviously don't speak to the same issue/scenario).



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