A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

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iaafan
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by iaafan » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am

allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”



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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by hokeyfine » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:27 pm

allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
I can try if you'd like..... doesn't change the support.



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allcat
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by allcat » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm

iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?


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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm

allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
I think you might've missed something.


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allcat
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by allcat » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:52 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
I think you might've missed something.
ok 2 pronouns and 1 noun. I guess you win.


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TomCat88
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by TomCat88 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:37 pm

allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:52 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
I think you might've missed something.
ok 2 pronouns and 1 noun. I guess you win.
Not trying to win anything. I'm looking at what you said, not what hokeyfine said. You were pounding home the "us" "boys" "boys" "he" "she" "guy" pretty hard there.


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allcat
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by allcat » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:57 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:37 pm
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:52 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
I think you might've missed something.
ok 2 pronouns and 1 noun. I guess you win.
Not trying to win anything. I'm looking at what you said, not what hokeyfine said. You were pounding home the "us" "boys" "boys" "he" "she" "guy" pretty hard there.
I just felt I was making a simple statement. I thought the response was an attempt to use the pronouns to hammer the point. I am definitely not the wordsmith that you are and regret my post appearing to you that way.


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iaafan
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by iaafan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:25 am

allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
Read your own comment and then look at what you said to hokeyfine. You’re telling him to not do something right after you just basically did the same thing.



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allcat
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by allcat » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:42 am

iaafan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:25 am
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
Read your own comment and then look at what you said to hokeyfine. You’re telling him to not do something right after you just basically did the same thing.
I was just telling how I feel about being told I'm a bigot because I don't see something the same way. I just see the two statements in a little different light. I can see how someone would see the same thing, although I see it differently. I always find it hard to correctly convey my thoughts while writing.


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iaafan
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by iaafan » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:18 pm

allcat wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:25 am
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
Read your own comment and then look at what you said to hokeyfine. You’re telling him to not do something right after you just basically did the same thing.
I was just telling how I feel about being told I'm a bigot because I don't see something the same way. I just see the two statements in a little different light. I can see how someone would see the same thing, although I see it differently. I always find it hard to correctly convey my thoughts while writing.
I don’t see where you were called a bigot. All I see is you responding for the first time in this thread to lute cat, who didn’t call you a bigot. The when hokey said good luck to her in an innocuous way, you asked a seemingly sarcastic question. He made his comment AFTER you used all kinds of pronouns. It’s audacious that you questioned hokey after the comment you made.



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HelenaCat95
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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:49 pm

If I don't identify as a bigot, does that still make me a bigot?



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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by MSU01 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:09 pm

I think it's awesome that the NCAA has developed guidelines to allow transgender athletes to compete fairly. I was curious about the race times so looked up the 2018 Big Sky Outdoor Championships - Eastwood finished 7th in the Men's 1500 meters in a time that was over 30 seconds faster than the winner of the Women's 1500 ran. Clearly there has been a drop in performance there to show that she's not trying to take advantage of the system in any way. Best of luck to her - except when racing against MSU as someone else said!


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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by hokeyfine » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:12 pm

allcat wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:57 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:37 pm
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:52 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:37 pm
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:45 pm
iaafan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:19 am
allcat wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:45 pm
hokeyfine wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:17 pm
Good luck to her. She's a courageous girl. =D^
Couldn't work in any more female pronouns?
Well you said, “I actually think it is disrespectful to those of us that grew up with boys being boys. I think he is not a she, just a confused guy.”
So if you work in three pronouns it enhances your argument? Is that the same as winning by yelling more?
I think you might've missed something.
ok 2 pronouns and 1 noun. I guess you win.
Not trying to win anything. I'm looking at what you said, not what hokeyfine said. You were pounding home the "us" "boys" "boys" "he" "she" "guy" pretty hard there.
I just felt I was making a simple statement. I thought the response was an attempt to use the pronouns to hammer the point. I am definitely not the wordsmith that you are and regret my post appearing to you that way.
not trying to hammer anything home. Just stating my support for her.



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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:25 am

Nice title, OP. Transgender is an adjective.

EDIT: Now that I took a second look at it, it appears that you managed to create a title without a subject or a verb :lol:


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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:28 pm

I have all the empathy in the world for transgender people -- they certainly aren't transitioning because it is the easy thing to do or the socially expedient thing to do. They fully realize that their lives will be very, very (very!) difficult because of the transition. So even though I don't understand it (just as I don't understand what it is like to be female and never will), it's obvious that they are making a decision that is very important to them, as nobody would make that decision lightly.

So when it comes to transgender people, they have my support as fellow people and do each his or her own -- they are just people like the rest of us.

When it comes to athletics, yeah, it gets a lot stickier. I'm fine with it for a runner (admittedly because I don't have much of a vested interest in college cross country smack). However, what if this was a women's basketball player whose body used to be that of an athletic 7' 2" guy? Well, honestly, that changes the math for me, and I'd say that's not really fair competitively.

I haven't figured out a simple answer to the whole question of transgender athletes yet. I probably never will.



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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by allcat » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:16 am

SonomaCat wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:28 pm
I have all the empathy in the world for transgender people -- they certainly aren't transitioning because it is the easy thing to do or the socially expedient thing to do. They fully realize that their lives will be very, very (very!) difficult because of the transition. So even though I don't understand it (just as I don't understand what it is like to be female and never will), it's obvious that they are making a decision that is very important to them, as nobody would make that decision lightly.

So when it comes to transgender people, they have my support as fellow people and do each his or her own -- they are just people like the rest of us.

When it comes to athletics, yeah, it gets a lot stickier. I'm fine with it for a runner (admittedly because I don't have much of a vested interest in college cross country smack). However, what if this was a women's basketball player whose body used to be that of an athletic 7' 2" guy? Well, honestly, that changes the math for me, and I'd say that's not really fair competitively.

I haven't figured out a simple answer to the whole question of transgender athletes yet. I probably never will.
You just don't get your cake and eat it too. I also don't care what they do to themselves. You just don't get to force every one else to go on the ride. If you bitch about Lance Armstrong or A rod, you can't also be for Trans athletes. Otherwise call up Barry Bonds and apologize.


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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:21 am

This specific discussion makes me wonder more about whether it may be somewhat arbitrary for us to have separate sports for men and women to begin with. I do think it's necessary for competition, but I think we all know of quite a few instances where there's a dominant woman in a sport whose physical features are thought of as "man-like" or who otherwise seems to have a body that doesn't fit the mold of the typical woman. There does seem to be some grey areas in gender in the world, and our world of having men and women compete at separate levels doesn't account for that, and probably never will be able to. Which I guess is fine ... nothing is ever perfect.

There are simply some issues where reality is messy enough that one can't find many black and white answers. This is one of those for me. It's a case by case thing for me, and is more based on emotion than intellect for this issue.



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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by LTown Cat » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:26 pm

SonomaCat wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:21 am
This specific discussion makes me wonder more about whether it may be somewhat arbitrary for us to have separate sports for men and women to begin with. I do think it's necessary for competition, but I think we all know of quite a few instances where there's a dominant woman in a sport whose physical features are thought of as "man-like" or who otherwise seems to have a body that doesn't fit the mold of the typical woman. There does seem to be some grey areas in gender in the world, and our world of having men and women compete at separate levels doesn't account for that, and probably never will be able to. Which I guess is fine ... nothing is ever perfect.

There are simply some issues where reality is messy enough that one can't find many black and white answers. This is one of those for me. It's a case by case thing for me, and is more based on emotion than intellect for this issue.
I agree with you--tough issue and I tend to be more opinionated if it involves a sport I care about. However, lets be honest, if you get rid of the separation between men's and women's sports you have officially gotten rid of women in sports--at least 99.9% of them.


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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by allcat » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:01 pm

I'm all for getting rid of Title 9. I now say let them in. We won't have to hear anything more about Soccer and Tennis equal pay. Let's let the real women do something they enjoy and is more empowering like cooking and maybe cleaning.


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Re: A transgender now on the um women's xcountry

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:38 pm

LTown Cat wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:26 pm
However, lets be honest, if you get rid of the separation between men's and women's sports you have officially gotten rid of women in sports--at least 99.9% of them.
Agreed. It's a imperfect system, but the best system we can come up with to assure as much competition and participation as possible.



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