UM's Caleb Kidder

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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby Grizaddict on Wed May 03, 2017 12:27 pm

PapaG wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:I was off a tad, but he didn't "have the kind of year he's capable of," so there's that. I think he was the best NFL prospect in the BSC and that he'll make the Vikings and have a solid pro career.


Not having Tyrone Holmes on the other side had the predicted result for Kidder's season. He was just another guy without real NFL talent like Holmes taking the attention . Has Kidder signed a guaranteed UDFA contact?


Yes a priority UFA contract. These are typically 3 year contracts at league minimum 475k per year, along with a signing bonus. If they make the team then they collect their salary. NFL players only collect their salaries during season, which I found interesting. In other words, they get 1/17 of salary after week 1 and so on. At 475k that means they collect 28k after week 1. Not too shabby.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby iaafan on Wed May 03, 2017 12:47 pm

I would think they'd get paid for the exhibition season games too.

I think PapaG is oversimplifying things in Kidder's case. The fact that he got snapped up quickly during the UDFA stage despite his pedestrian numbers and playing for a FCS team says a lot. I think the scouts saw a lot of upside with him. Kidder (5.5 sacks, 11.0 TFL and 5.5 tackles per game) moved from DT to DE to further complicate things for him. Like TomCat88 says, if he'd had the year he's capable of he'd been drafted.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby grizatwork on Wed May 03, 2017 1:05 pm

iaafan wrote:I would think they'd get paid for the exhibition season games too.

I think PapaG is oversimplifying things in Kidder's case. The fact that he got snapped up quickly during the UDFA stage despite his pedestrian numbers and playing for a FCS team says a lot. I think the scouts saw a lot of upside with him. Kidder (5.5 sacks, 11.0 TFL and 5.5 tackles per game) moved from DT to DE to further complicate things for him. Like TomCat88 says, if he'd had the year he's capable of he'd been drafted.


And playing both DE and DT in college has to help him at the next level. His measurables were actually quite good in his pro day. I think if he stayed at DT, he would have had a much better year, but could have been seen as being way too light as a DT for the NFL. Playing a year at DE, a team could look at his athletic ability and say that keeping this kid on the practice squad for a year and let him learn the DE position could be worth it.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby PapaG on Wed May 03, 2017 9:20 pm

Grizaddict wrote:
PapaG wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:I was off a tad, but he didn't "have the kind of year he's capable of," so there's that. I think he was the best NFL prospect in the BSC and that he'll make the Vikings and have a solid pro career.


Not having Tyrone Holmes on the other side had the predicted result for Kidder's season. He was just another guy without real NFL talent like Holmes taking the attention . Has Kidder signed a guaranteed UDFA contact?


Yes a priority UFA contract. These are typically 3 year contracts at league minimum 475k per year, along with a signing bonus. If they make the team then they collect their salary. NFL players only collect their salaries during season, which I found interesting. In other words, they get 1/17 of salary after week 1 and so on. At 475k that means they collect 28k after week 1. Not too shabby.


Hope he can make a practice squad at least. I think his biggest NFL issue is he isn't fast enough to play rush end and isn't big enough to play inside.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby bobcat99 on Wed May 10, 2017 8:40 pm

PapaG wrote:
Grizaddict wrote:
PapaG wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:I was off a tad, but he didn't "have the kind of year he's capable of," so there's that. I think he was the best NFL prospect in the BSC and that he'll make the Vikings and have a solid pro career.


Not having Tyrone Holmes on the other side had the predicted result for Kidder's season. He was just another guy without real NFL talent like Holmes taking the attention . Has Kidder signed a guaranteed UDFA contact?


Yes a priority UFA contract. These are typically 3 year contracts at league minimum 475k per year, along with a signing bonus. If they make the team then they collect their salary. NFL players only collect their salaries during season, which I found interesting. In other words, they get 1/17 of salary after week 1 and so on. At 475k that means they collect 28k after week 1. Not too shabby.


Hope he can make a practice squad at least. I think his biggest NFL issue is he isn't fast enough to play rush end and isn't big enough to play inside.


You do understand that teams have a purpose for run defending ends, right? Not every DE is a rush end, buddy. Anyways, Kidder ran a 4.7 at 270 lbs, which is pretty quick. More importantly, he had a sub 7.0 3-cone. That's a very good time for any pass rusher.

But yeah, he was just another guy. Great take.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby TomCat88 on Wed May 10, 2017 8:53 pm

The NFL takes a good, long look at these guys. Sometimes things just don't fall into place during college careers. Kidder is without question a superb team player on top of his skill set. Had he been on a different team and not had to play out of position and endure some serious injuries he probably would've been a mid-round draft pick. He took more than one for the team.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby bobcat99 on Wed May 10, 2017 10:22 pm

TomCat88 wrote:The NFL takes a good, long look at these guys. Sometimes things just don't fall into place during college careers. Kidder is without question a superb team player on top of his skill set. Had he been on a different team and not had to play out of position and endure some serious injuries he probably would've been a mid-round draft pick. He took more than one for the team.


Mid round is quite a stretch Tom.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby 91catAlum on Thu May 11, 2017 6:57 am

I talked to one of his former coaches at CHS who said if kidder had played O line in college, he'd make it in the NFL because he just mauls people with his unreal strength. But he doesn't think he's got a very good chance to make it at DE because he isn't 'twitchy' enough.
Just an opinion. We'll see what happens.

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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby TomCat88 on Thu May 11, 2017 1:32 pm

91catAlum wrote:I talked to one of his former coaches at CHS who said if kidder had played O line in college, he'd make it in the NFL because he just mauls people with his unreal strength. But he doesn't think he's got a very good chance to make it at DE because he isn't 'twitchy' enough.
Just an opinion. We'll see what happens.

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Well the Vikings need offensive linemen in the worst way. The last Helenan to convert from DE in college to OL in the NFL did alright.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby 91catAlum on Thu May 11, 2017 2:12 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
91catAlum wrote:I talked to one of his former coaches at CHS who said if kidder had played O line in college, he'd make it in the NFL because he just mauls people with his unreal strength. But he doesn't think he's got a very good chance to make it at DE because he isn't 'twitchy' enough.
Just an opinion. We'll see what happens.

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Well the Vikings need offensive linemen in the worst way. The last Helenan to convert from DE in college to OL in the NFL did alright.

Who was that, Pat Donovan?
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby TomCat88 on Thu May 11, 2017 6:32 pm

91catAlum wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:
91catAlum wrote:I talked to one of his former coaches at CHS who said if kidder had played O line in college, he'd make it in the NFL because he just mauls people with his unreal strength. But he doesn't think he's got a very good chance to make it at DE because he isn't 'twitchy' enough.
Just an opinion. We'll see what happens.

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Well the Vikings need offensive linemen in the worst way. The last Helenan to convert from DE in college to OL in the NFL did alright.

Who was that, Pat Donovan?

Yes. He was an All-America DE at Stanford.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby PapaG on Thu May 11, 2017 9:22 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
You do understand that teams have a purpose for run defending ends, right? Not every DE is a rush end, buddy. Anyways, Kidder ran a 4.7 at 270 lbs, which is pretty quick. More importantly, he had a sub 7.0 3-cone. That's a very good time for any pass rusher.

But yeah, he was just another guy. Great take.


That must be why he got drafted so high. For being an elite, "run-stopping" 4-3 DE who can't pass rush very well but can maybe fight 330 lb NFL tackles as if they are FCS tackles to stop the run.

Right, buddy? Great take! Mike Zimmer runs a base 4-3 defense. The DTs are the run-cloggers, not 260 lb DEs.

He's just another 4-3 DE project at the pro level, nothing special at all, and he'll struggle to make a roster. The odds are already against him. If Kidder is the wiz against the run you say he is, then his agent gave him crappy advice since he should be playing as a 3-4 DE after he gains 20-30 lbs.
Last edited by PapaG on Thu May 11, 2017 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby PapaG on Thu May 11, 2017 9:46 pm

My bad, he's listed at 260 lbs. by the Vikings. If he can't consistently pressure the QB, he'll be out of the league fast. I hope he gets a year or two on a practice squad to bulk up a bit and get a real chance.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby bobcat99 on Fri May 12, 2017 10:01 pm

PapaG wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:
You do understand that teams have a purpose for run defending ends, right? Not every DE is a rush end, buddy. Anyways, Kidder ran a 4.7 at 270 lbs, which is pretty quick. More importantly, he had a sub 7.0 3-cone. That's a very good time for any pass rusher.

But yeah, he was just another guy. Great take.


That must be why he got drafted so high. For being an elite, "run-stopping" 4-3 DE who can't pass rush very well but can maybe fight 330 lb NFL tackles as if they are FCS tackles to stop the run.

Right, buddy? Great take! Mike Zimmer runs a base 4-3 defense. The DTs are the run-cloggers, not 260 lb DEs.

He's just another 4-3 DE project at the pro level, nothing special at all, and he'll struggle to make a roster. The odds are already against him. If Kidder is the wiz against the run you say he is, then his agent gave him crappy advice since he should be playing as a 3-4 DE after he gains 20-30 lbs.



Lemme know where I said, or even implied the word "elite".

There is a difference between a guy who is "just a guy" at the FCS level and somebody who is a fringe NFL player. Unless you'd like to say Newell was "just a guy".

Oh and fwiw, Kidder compares reasonable well with Brian Robison, who starts for the Vikings at 260 lbs. So if you're gonna say he's too small and too unathletic, then idk what the hell Robison is doing starting.

Nobody (except Tom) is saying Kidder is a guaranteed NFL player. If you truly are capable of reading (highly debatable) you'll see that I'm only taking exception with your accusation of him being "just a guy" and his athletic capabilities.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby PapaG on Sat May 13, 2017 5:39 pm

bobcat99 wrote:
PapaG wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:
You do understand that teams have a purpose for run defending ends, right? Not every DE is a rush end, buddy. Anyways, Kidder ran a 4.7 at 270 lbs, which is pretty quick. More importantly, he had a sub 7.0 3-cone. That's a very good time for any pass rusher.

But yeah, he was just another guy. Great take.


That must be why he got drafted so high. For being an elite, "run-stopping" 4-3 DE who can't pass rush very well but can maybe fight 330 lb NFL tackles as if they are FCS tackles to stop the run.

Right, buddy? Great take! Mike Zimmer runs a base 4-3 defense. The DTs are the run-cloggers, not 260 lb DEs.

He's just another 4-3 DE project at the pro level, nothing special at all, and he'll struggle to make a roster. The odds are already against him. If Kidder is the wiz against the run you say he is, then his agent gave him crappy advice since he should be playing as a 3-4 DE after he gains 20-30 lbs.



Lemme know where I said, or even implied the word "elite".

There is a difference between a guy who is "just a guy" at the FCS level and somebody who is a fringe NFL player. Unless you'd like to say Newell was "just a guy".

Oh and fwiw, Kidder compares reasonable well with Brian Robison, who starts for the Vikings at 260 lbs. So if you're gonna say he's too small and too unathletic, then idk what the hell Robison is doing starting.

Nobody (except Tom) is saying Kidder is a guaranteed NFL player. If you truly are capable of reading (highly debatable) you'll see that I'm only taking exception with your accusation of him being "just a guy" and his athletic capabilities.


I meant "just a guy" in terms of the NFL. Sorry for the confusion. Of course he's a great and rare football player for even getting a UDFA contract and a shot to make a roster. I hope he does well because I always pull for Big Sky pros in any sport. That's he from Montana (the state,snot the team) makes it even better.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby AlphaGriz1 on Thu May 18, 2017 11:29 am

His biggest obstacle is his personality and selfishness.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby Bobcatsinmso on Thu May 18, 2017 1:13 pm

That was the same for Crittenden, who was and still is a total A$$, Kidder is a better football player however, and has a chance to play professionally.
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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby AlphaGriz1 on Thu May 18, 2017 2:11 pm

Bobcatsinmso wrote:That was the same for Crittenden, who was and still is a total A$$, Kidder is a better football player however, and has a chance to play professionally.

Come on............you can't say that he was nominated for a Rhodes scholarship. That trumps everything in Grizland.







But you are right.

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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

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Re: UM's Caleb Kidder

Postby St George on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:57 pm

Speaking of drafted giz. Did Brady G. end up in the NFL, CFL, Arena Football, Prison league?
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